Uh oh Am I Dating a Rules Girl?

Comment from rosemary27cn
I think it's a lady's nature, I understand sometimes, women have the conservative approach.. Bill may not have to mind pay at the beginning of dating.. And I suggest the lady could call Bill for a good night call, or send mobile message to him. Personally, my opinion is that men usually take care of the bill at the beginning, but we will give some considerate gesture, like send him a gift or occasionally pay the bill. And later, it doesn't matter who pays.

Comment from youlookinatme
There is nothing wrong with a girl in 2005 not paying for dates. She may feel that you are financially in a much better situation to pay. To be honest, the more I like a guy the more likely I am to let him pay. When I pay my share, know that I am not interested and don't want to feel obligated. If she pitches in by making you dinner at times and entertaining you then realize this too costs money. But, she sounds like whatever may have been there in the beginning either wasn't enough for her or has dwindled since. One other possibility: She may have picked up clues from you that you are not totally into her and is holding back for that reason.

Comment from agrnidgurl
Call her when you KNOW she won't be able to pick up and leave her a voice message asking her to call you back and leave your number on the message to make sure she can't say she doesn't have it. If she doesn't call you back, don't call her for any more dates! If she is into you, she will call you back. Usually, in my book the person asking for the date should be the one paying, unless you have been dating a while, then it should be more give and take, not one way. As for the physical aspect, you could be stirring up lustful feelings that she isn't ready to act on yet. Girls can get hot and bothered too, they are just better at controlling it usually. Good Luck Bill!

Comment from Sunnydi
I don't think 4 weeks and 5 dates is long enough to know someone. Some woman don't expect to pay for a date in the beginning at least unless they are aware that their date doesn't have the money to cover the expenses of a date. Also you mentioned every date ended with passionate kissing? I am not sure this is a good sign. Maybe she thought she liked you but is starting to have second thoughts.

At 27 years old she should be beyond games at this point. And it sounds like that is exactly what she is doing playing games. I say end it quickly and move on to a more mature mate.

Comment from jkmagic
Until it is established that they are a pair, I agree. Why pay? You come at it opposite... Pay and pay...??? After he has had the "talk" and says what he thinks he wants, then he has a gripe. She gets to do as she sees best... He should not assume anything. Men can communicate too, and females do not think like men. Let us face it... If she says "Sure, I would love to pay and help" and "I am nuts about you" etc. Then he can talk about not getting "to it" too.

Well Bill, maybe she is in no hurry and if you really like her it well be worth the wait :) Far to many guys jump in get what they want and move on maybe she sees you are like that and she is not going to give it UP. Time well tell I have a copy of the rules book my self and some of it is right on and some of it is out dated for the 2000s I can't do the rules - far to boring for me - well good luck to you.

If he really wants her, he shouldn't bring up the "going Dutch" thing. If she really wanted him, she would have invited him to lunch or dinner.

Comment from miki
Dear Bill, I was the same as your girlfriend....but now I am changed a lot! I was very old fashioned, but after 33 years I realized that I lose a lot in my life behaving like your girlfriend did. Now it's too late for regrets...my ex friends are all married, have children and maybe happy?! Maybe you were too kind with her; you did all that she wants to do...take initiative! Anyway, she is still young and maybe she is not in a big hurry to marry, so she lets God to decide for her...sometimes, it's good to take decisions from the beginning, not to waste time by flirting... My advice is one simple...let destiny to decide in your place and don't bother so much...you did all you could for the moment. If you don't want to lose her, please, talk with her and tell all the things that bother you and then you'll see what it will come...anyway, don't forgot that there are plenty of girls in this world and you'll find your half one day! All the best, miki

I live in Europe and am old-fashioned, as most girls in my country. A man always pays on dates, and if not- it is a signal to me that he is stingy. The beginning of the relationship belongs to his initiative, he calls, asks for dates. Later on, as we already love each other it's ok if I pay my part, or even offer to pay for two of us, call and be the first who propose a meeting. Whenever I call to a man too soon, he quits, it's just that he wants to be a hunter!That is why your girl acts like this, probably she really cares. And I disagree that she should pay for herself, maybe unless it is in America........... But I don't know that.

Comment from amoralis
A man should always pay the bill when he invites a woman to the restaurant. This is chivalry. Be patient and try to have better communication with her. If it doesn't work, respectfully tell her that you want from her more than friendship. By the way, to you intend to marry her or just to have a relationship? What is so wrong about being a rules girl? Girls, I've seen so many men pulling so many scandalous acts, trust me...let them pay for dinner.

END IT! The fact that he has such huge doubts so early in the game, and that he's asking himself these types of "relationship" questions so early in the game is a definite RED FLAG! End it, move on, and hope for someone better suited to come along. Think about it, if a guy really was "into" a girl, he'd want to shower her with love, attention, gifts, etc. and wouldn't even have to raise the issue of, "I always have to pay!" Let that alone be his reason to end it. Move on dude!

Comment from Xxro
I am the female side of this scenario. I have liked someone and wanted to take it slow. He also asks me to call him. I'm old fashioned and I don't usually call men. However, I did. I dated him several times and the relationship went to the limit. I believe I should have waited longer. I really liked this guy. I have never heard from him again. I DO BELIEVE they have more respect for you if you aren't easy. BEEN THERE....Done that.......

Read 'he's just not that into you' by Greg Behrendt and Liz Tuccillo. Substitute the 'man' for the 'woman' and he has his answer........Its not just you me who have cornered the marked on being 'evasive'......Wake up and realize that ' she just isn't that into you'. As with men, if we girls are interested.....We're in there....No doubts, no games. - A.B.B

Comment from Erin
Bill, I can understand how she feels, because most men that I date offer to pay my way, then again I do offer as well. But I tell you one thing a good man is hard to find, damn I'm still looking, but a good woman is even harder. I'm a real woman, just not cheap and in today's world know how to keep a good man, but I truly think men are afraid of a real woman who loves to spend time with a nice young man.

Comment from cj142
Another woman's point of view:
If a guy asks me out on a date, at least the first three, he pays. Period. This is just part of the chase game... you are saying you are interested, I am checking it out to see if I am or not... I shouldn't have to pay to see if I return the interest. If a relationship is developing out of a friendship, that might be different... but if it is a date, the guy pays at least to start off....especially if he is choosing the place and dinner is over $50. Although generally if we go have a few drinks after, those she could buy... something small to say she is having fun... The kissing thing is weird though...I would say she is telling you she is not interested. If I were you, and wanted to see what was going on, I would continue to see her, but start doing more "buddy" type things. Go roller skating or bowling... IN THE AFTERNOON, and bail for the evening unless she suggests something. Don't make any more physical advances, and don't take her to nice dinners...those are romantic, and reserved for someone that you are headed in that direction with. If she is interested, then after 2 or 3 of these type events she will make it clear in one way or another (watch for signals, like her touching you, getting close to you etc.), and if she doesn't, tell her that it is wonderful to be her friend and stop calling.

Comment from Jhero
Dear Bill, If this relationship is causing you heartaches, misery and any doubt whatsoever, then it is time to move on! A relationship between two people should be mutual and not all one-sided. Got it yet!?

Comment from Claudia
I'm personally annoyed with her. She is too close to The Rules and selfish too!

Comment from Flicka143
Bill, I am going to have to assume that you are not the old fashioned kind of guy. As for the kind of women that are still "out there" who do not offer to pay for their share of the date, I would like to proudly say that I am one of those women. In fact I enjoy dating an old fashioned kind of guy. The kind of guy who pulls chairs out for me and who gets doors, the car doors too, and who is offended that I would try to pay in the courting stages of dating, and yes the fifth date is still the courting stage. These are things that men do to show women that they respect them. I have been dating the same guy exclusively for 6 months now, and it was well into the 4th month before I bought dinner, and he argued with me, I had to slip the bill to the server while he was away from the table. Maybe the issue you have with this woman is that she is requesting to be treated like a woman. Not a man with breast, or a buddy or a pal, but a woman with whom you would like to date. Remember to treat her like a woman, which means more delicate than you would a man, and if you are just holding out for the sex, then you are in this for the wrong reason. The only thing I can tell from the surface one sided story is that she doesn't call. Are you a busy guy? Are you always making it appear that when people call you when you are with her that they are an annoyance? If not then just ask her to call you at a particular time. Try a "I am going out to catch a ------ with the boys, I will be home by 10:30, and would love if you would give me a call" or flip it, if she is going out with her friends "have fun with your friends, and give me a call when you get back so I can hear all about it." You don't have to be interested in what she did, just get her on the phone.

Run like the wind ! Think about it Bill, Do you want to be with a woman with the sex drive of a snail?

Comment from Jerry
Dump her. Way too many good ones out there. Most women I meet always want the men to buy. What a joke. Who made this rule? Also we are now in 2000s - If they don't put out by the 3rd or 4th date. Why waste any more time? It's not going to get you anywhere except more broke. Ever read the profiles that say friendship first? What does that mean to you? It's just a turn off for most men. Read profiles carefully when the profile says they travel all over and there income says 35000 or less guess who is going to pay for there trips ? Just think with your head not down below you will be happier.

Come on Bill. She is setting you up. Sounds like she's trying to let you down easy. I've done it, and it has been done to me. Welcome to the club. I hope I'm wrong, too. - Ed

Comment from adamb327
Hook me up with her I can handle that she has got to have good morals and I could live with that just keep paying for her she is going to be worth it, or she doesn't like you and does not know how to tell you she thought she did but doesn't, chicks are crazy man, I'm still single looking for a real woman not many out there to many leaches want and want or they don't even like you

Comment from RandyC
Play hard to get. Let her think you are dating others and that if you have the time, why not have another date? Ask her to take YOU out to dinner. Tell her you just want to keep the relationship on a strictly friendly basis.

Comment from Roger
1. She's sending mixed messages - That's OK I would think.
2. She never calls. - That's a bad sign, probably that's her way of letting you know she's not interested in you anymore.
3. She never pays. - Maybe she's trying to be traditional. But if she has not bought you even a small gift then I would say "Dump her NOW!"

Comment from fitnessnbooks
"I didn't know women like this still existed" says Brenda. Helloooooooo... What kind of closet have you been living in, Brenda? Most women expect the man to pay ALL THE TIME. I date frequently, almost always professionals. When a woman offers, it's just to be polite. If you take them up on the offer, that's the last date with them. And if a woman insists and pulls out the cash or card and really does pay, it's also her signal that this is her last date with you. The year is 2005.
Bill, it's only been 4 weeks, so I think you still have a chance to turn the tables a bit. First of all, I think you definitely started to get too close with this girl too quickly. I don't think I would be taking girls to weddings before 6 months into a relationship. You should have let that woman know that you were going to the wedding stag or "with the guys." You know how crazy weddings get, and how much sexual tension is in the air during those events... (alcohol, women, dancing, women...) Your girl would be curious to why she wasn't asked to join you. But curious in a good way my friend... So, take it slower with the weddings, family reunions and cousin Jack's Bar Mitzvah. You have the rest of your life you that.
Secondly, you say that she never calls or pays? You need to bust her balls a bit and tell her that your financial advisor thought you've been spending way too much money on women lately and advised you that you needed to find a sugar momma to start taking you out to fancy dinners and dancing, and that he put you on this new phone plan that only accepts incoming calls. Then tell her that your situation will only be temporary. Remember to say this to her seriously, but with a sarcastic grin on your face. She'll be surprised that you said that, and also be turned on with that cocky remark.
Lastly, she tells you that she doesn't want to rush into things. That's a good one! Again, you need to turn the tables, and accuse her on rushing into things herself. Tell her that you are an expert in body language, and that from observing her movements and expressions every time she was around you she had an "I want you" sign around her neck and thought you would have throw her into a cold shower if you didn't make the move. Then tell her that you would respect her wishes and "take things slower" if that was her true intention. 95% of the time, she'll drop her guard and continue what you started during your first couple dates.
Overall, you need to step up your level of attraction with this woman and let her know that you're not like the average "needy" guy. Make it obvious to her that you have a lot going on in your life other than her. Tease her... treat her like she's your little bratty sister... and don't be afraid to call her on her actions! Once she has gained 51% control, she'll be determined to have the remaining 49%. She always needs to have a reason to TRY and gain her control over the relationship. When she gets it all, she'll have nothing left to conquer and move on to her next project. The more naturally confident you act around her, the more you will need to tell HER to slow things down. Watch and see. I wish you the best of luck Bill. - Sean P.

Bill should be up front and ask her how she feels. If she's attracted to him, she would not pull back. If he's pressing for sex, she may be caught in a moral dilemma, trying to "test" him, too. I don't believe she's really attracted if she pulls back after a simple (albeit passionate) kiss. She's probably still testing the waters beyond their relationship.

Comment from jack
Drop her, she will never change-sending "mixed" signals will be all you will EVER get from her!

Comment from 1chic
I think that he should admire her for being old fashioned.
Maybe that is what is wrong with today's society...that ladies aren't treated and respected like ladies. Maybe that is why there are so many divorces and an-happy relationships in today's society.
I think he should respect her if he likes her and as you said maybe tell her that he understands some women feel uncomfortable about calling a guy, but he likes her and enjoys talking to her. That it's nice to know that something she sees or hears reminds her of him and she might want to tell him etc...

Comment from amberzamber
I think the advice you gave is great. Also I read the "Rules" and what a total piece of crap that is! I feel sorry for any guy dating a woman following that advice. However we read it, because so many guys walk away without reason, we keep trying to figure out what we may be doing wrong instead of realizing they are just the wrong guys. However, what might be really be going on may be more innocent but unfair to Bill, and I know because I just had this happen with a guy I went out on 4 dates with:
I usually know when there is chemistry and a spark within a few emails and a few minutes in person. However other people keep telling me that I'm being too harsh and chemistry can take months. (I don't agree with that at all-especially now) However I met a guy that is a great guy, we have lots in common and so we started going out again and again in a short period of time. I did not feel chemistry with him, so we only hugged on the first date. On the other 3 dates we did kiss romantically, and actually spent the night together on the last date, because I was still listening to other people tell me that I was being ridiculous about the chemistry thing and that I needed to give it more time.
Finally when he had already stated we were a couple, was planning our next date and was making plans for this summer, I told him things were moving too fast. (He was shocked and I don't blame him) But the truth was, I couldn't go on another date with him knowing that after all of this: I still felt no sparks for him. I was not purposefully trying to use him. So I asked him if he felt chemistry and had any sparks for me and if he thought it can take months to develop? He got mad. But ironically he felt no sparks or chemistry for me either, (unlike Bill) but just enjoyed being with someone and enjoyed human contact (as we all do), and he insisted "relationships take time". He dumped me immediately and wouldn't even discuss it. Relationships may take time but chemistry should not take that long. So although I think she may be following the "rules", at the same time her conscience might be bothering her because she doesn't feel any real chemistry with him. Because the truth is, I have had that great chemistry with a couple of guys (it didn't work out for other reasons) and 4 dates would NOT have been too many dates to declare us a couple and I would have been giddy about making plans for the summer. However I think she doesn't have those feelings for him and she was hoping they would develop, and the never have.

Comment from Princess
I would advise Bill to keep pursuing her, paying for all the dates unless she asks him out on one and then she should offer to pay for that one, and I would tell him to back off a tidbit physically. Too much physical aggression in the early stages scares the living daylights out of some girls, and shows that the guy is just impatient and doesn't know how to manage his impulses that well. Anyway, if she's a great catch, she's probably being pursued by five other guys and has dates with them as well, and believe me, there will always be guys out there who will treat a lady like a queen, and often times this is the one that will end up marrying her in the end!

I would suggest that Bill doesn't have to invite this woman on expensive dates if he is feeling "slightly used." If he takes her for a walk or an ice cream a few times instead of dinner or movies, she'll soon realize that he is not made of money and will either keep going out with him on these inexpensive dates, offer to pay now and then, invite him over to her place for a pizza and a movie, or quit seeing him if she is a gold digger.
Regarding phone calls, I would advise Bill to call less, cut his calls to only long enough to secure a date and see if she'll pick up the slack. Some women, just like some men are not comfortable dialing.
Regarding physical intimacy, since Bill is willing to wait for sex, her pulling away is nothing to worry about unless of course she stops kissing him. Like she said, she wants to take things slowly. There is a growing number of women who value themselves enough to reserve sex for marriage.
I would also advise Bill not to worry whether his girlfriend is a "Rules Girl" or not. If he thinks that "she's the one" for him, he should continue to ask her out.

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